GENEALOGIE

Dobry den, prosim o radu. Nejde mi momentalne ani tak o prelouskani celeho textu, jako vubec pochopeni / zakladni nasmerovani na co se vlastne divam - poprve jsem narazil na jiny pramen nez matriky.

https://www.mza.cz/aron/apu/590e46bf-d0 ... 94e958b608

Zapis na strance vpravo, v levem sloupci temer na konci je zretelne podtrzene jmeno Johann Tieff. O 4 radky nad nim je rok 1838. Vlevo od tohoto sloupce je odkaz na Vol. XXIII fol 77/85 - co to je?
Nazev sloupce: Be?ser der auf voriger Seite ausgewiesenen Realitaeten.

Na dalsi strane se potom jmeno opakuje nekolikrat ve sloupci prostrednim - min. od radku c. 12 az do radku predposledniho. Vlevo od toho je opet spousta odkazu na jakesi knihy Vol. XXII - XXIV.
Nazev sloupce: Anmerkung Der auf dieser Bes?ung einverleibten Haftungen.

Ze strany pred tou prvni chapu ze se jedna o zaznamy tykajici se domu cislo 45 patriciho mistni Papirne. Nechapu ale ty odkazy do neznama a mate me i evidentni casovy nesoulad mezi temi sloupci.

Hi,

i have to write you in english:

This is an Austrian land register, sheet C.
Sheet C is used to document all debits associated with the property. These include above all liens (mortgages), servitudes and charges on real property. It lists who has which encumbrances on the property and the amount of these encumbrances.
In the 2 left-hand columns, the changes in ownership are entered in short form with a reference to column 1, where the corresponding documents can be found.

Column 1
Instrumentenbuch (Kniha) Nro: Volume XXIII folio 77-85
Short summary:
"Nach ihm hat zufolge Testamentes de dato 17 August 1837 und Abhandlungs-
und Einantwortungsprotokoll de dato 17 September 1838 die sämtlichen oben
ausgewiesenen Realitäten Johann TIEFF im Wert pro 21.342 Floren 6 Kreuzer
Kaiserlicher Münze erblichen überkommen."

Albert

Hi Albert

many thanks for the explanation as well as the transcript, which is much more than I was hoping for!

I still remain confused about two things:

1) So where do I find the corresponding documents (Instrumentenbuch) referenced in the first column? Presumably these are sheets A and/or B?
2) Why aren't 2nd and 4th columns aligned i.e. the 'Anmerkung' for the registry entry in question is not next to it but only on the following page?

Btw am I correctly guessing the two terms I couldn't read before in these two column headers are Besitzer and Besitzung, respectively?

Regarding the Testament you have pointed to, so that would be one written by the previous owner (entry in the 2nd column), right? Any chance there you can read the line before "Papiermuehle", please? It also begins with P- and ends with -tzen so I don't think it is a person name...

Hi,

To your questions:

1. you must contact the relevant archive, which can give you information about the whereabouts of the Instrumentenbuch / Grundbuch.
2. the columns are listed chronologically from top to bottom. There was no room in the right-hand column, so it continues on the next page (the reference to the Instrumentenbuch was mentioned again)
3. the heading reads „Besitzer der auf voriger Seite ausgewiesenen Realitaeten“
4. the previous owner was Karl FUNDULUS

You will find him at the next page (the first two entries):
"Zu folge gerichtlicher Verordnung vom 20 November 1837 hat Karl Fundulus aus Trebitsch die Pränotazien [Vormerkungen] eines Kontoauszuges über einen Betrag pro latus 2165 Floren 1 Kreuzer
Winer Währung erwirket, gegen zertifizirung.
Zu folge gerichtlichen Auftrags vom 26 März 1838 Zahl 333 hat Carl Fundulus auf Grund der beigebrachten Erklärung de dato 10 März 1838 des Johan Tiff die obige Vormerkung in der Höhe von 2165 Floren 1 Kreuzer Wiener Währung gerechtfertiget.
Laut Testament de dato 17 August 1837 wird versichert für Johann Tiff die zwölfjährig berechnete Dienstlon mit 7488 Floren
…"

Albert

Massive thanks once again!

Surprised about Karl Fundulus, I have come across this name before but assumed he was the NEXT owner because - as even the wikipedia page claims - he purchased the papermill in 1846. Which roughly matches the year when I know this Johann Tieff already moved to a different location (Neu Ingrowitz). Anyway, this is off topic and I guess now I just need to translate all the texts to make sense of them and the somewhat weird "independent chronology" of the registry columns.

Btw I have now found the answer to the first question - the 'main' Instrumentenbuch records seem to be here https://www.mza.cz/aron/apu/aee2db84-54 ... f649958971 e.g. the referenced Vol. XXIII folio 77 here https://www.mza.cz/aron/apu/d20f55b1-f4 ... dd4927e056 (with the 1838 Johann Tieff record at the bottom on the right)

wanderer40 píše:4. the previous owner was Karl FUNDULUS

Just to leave this here, according to the publication "300 years of paper production in Přibyslavice 1690 - 1990", the previous owner was "Josef Strniště" who had bought it from "Antonin Bureš". He was however merely a businessman and "Jan Tiff" was running the operation for him, "coming from an old paper-making family from Hungary (Slovakia)". It claims it was Strniste in 1837 who in his will passed the indebted factory to Tiff, valued at 21300 florins. Tiff "had to sell it" later - getting 11000 only - when in 1846 Karl Fundulus gets it after previous 3 unsuccessful action attempts (which are mentioned here https://www.oldnews.com/en/search?qkeyword=johann+tieff).