SOLVED: Josef Waber b1855

[LarryBudd]

Josef Waber was born 1855(?) and would be in proximity to Horni Benesov. I can't find evidence of him there with his wife Johanna b1853(?). The birthdates are in question, but they may be approximations. They have several children, one of whom indicated that they were born in Bennish, Austria, which I assume is Horni Benesov. Again, no record of any of them in Horni Benesov on their dates of birth. Joseph Rudolf Waber b1885, Stephanie L. Waber b1888, and Berthold Bernard Waber b1884. None of the children married in "Austria". The whole family mentioned here died in the US. Any help locating this family would be appreciated. A descendant is a DNA match and Moravia-Silesia is the most likely place where my family and theirs merged.

[Ellise]

Hello,
I found the family of Josef Waber in Horní Benešov (suburb Luhy). I had used this index.
There are birth records: Josef Rudolf, Berthold, Stephania and Anna, who died as a baby. It is possible that Josef and Johanna had other children, I didn’t look for them. Good luck with your genealogical research!

Ellise

[LarryBudd]

Ellis, thank you for your help!

Josef and Johanna did not have any other children. However, it appears that Josef did with another woman, Karolina Raab, her name was Maria.

The household is 93, as is the same with all the other children. Would you agree that this is the same father? Also, am I correct, did Maria die in 10 Mar 1887? Or now reading it, is that 1881?

Where would I locate marriages for Luhy? I search the church records for Luhy but there was no folio for marriages that I could find. I also searched through both of the church records (births & deaths), and couldn't find any marriages there.

[jano]

Johanna's birth record.
Maria's death record, on 10/3/1881, same father.
Karolina's birth, marriage in Luhy, death record.
Joseph's birth record.

[LarryBudd]

Jano, thank you for your help!

From what I was able to identify, Josef was born in Seiferdorf, which is now Zator, correct?

Is the correct location Luhy, Bruntal, Moravia-Silesia, Czechia, or Luhy, Horni Benesov, Bruntal, Moravia-Silesia, Czechia, or is it considered acceptable to just say Horni Benesov, Bruntal, Moravia-Silesia, Czechia?

Based on your original response, I assume I should be able to find marriages for Luhy in the marriage records of Horni Benesov? I appreciate the links to the records, I went over the death records twice, even in that year after I posted my last response. I don't have a good excuse for missing it. Thanks again. I am attempting to learn how to translate.

[jano]

Joseph's birthplace is č.p. 54, 793 16 Zátor, Czechia, map.
His children's birthplace is Luhy 93, 793 12 Horní Benešov, Czechia, map.
Johanna's birthplace was flooded, map.

Part of the marriage records of Horní Benešov is for Luhy. I couldn't find Johanna's marriage there. The marriage usually resides at the bride's place of residence, I assume it is Roudno. The marriage records of Roudno is still stored at the registration office Městský úřad Bruntál and therefore it is not available in a digitalized form.

[LarryBudd]

Jano, thank you for the confirmation and the additional information.

Is this the marriage record for Josef Waber and Johanna Kuhnert?
https://digi.archives.cz/da/permalink?x ... 221bae2a0e

I have them on record as being married in 1881 and with the birth of their son in 1882, 1881 would seem fitting.

I could use a little help with the translation of that record, but would you be willing to translate it in a Czech/German/Latin (English) format? Where the original word in the record is the Czech/German/Latin word and in parenthesis '()' is the English word? I'm trying to learn to translate and being able to see the words typed in the language, with an English translation will allow me understand the word in the language, with the translation, and compare it to the written dialect used by the scribes. I need to learn the context of what is written, and the guides I have access to aren't really helping. They offer a summary of what is intended to be in each section, but not what each word says/means.

If this isn't the right context for that, I can post that elsewhere. I'm only saying, if you translate the record for me, can you put it in the format requested so I can learn the words. Fully translated sometimes loses the context of the original and words or abbreviations are altered sometimes for clarity or to make sense in English. I don't want that. I want to learn how it was spoken/written.

I'm a context genealogist. I like learning about the people and places and what it was like in the timeframe of my ancestors, regardless of where they were from. It makes understanding who they are, what they did, and what the world was like around them much easier. What I'm learning, for example, about my Czech ancestors is that they moved around a lot, from village to village or town to town. Likely as mines opened and closed and work became available or lost.

With Johanna's birth place, I translated that as Rautenberg, then altered it as Rattenberg because a search on the Internet seemed to point me in that direction. Is Roudno effectively that village today or were they two separate places? Does her original birth place have a modern village name or was the dam built so long ago that the village never was renamed?

Is there any information on how many and what villages were lost/destroyed in the completion of the dam/reservoir on the Moravice?

[Ellise]

Hello,

Is this the marriage record for Josef Waber and Johanna Kuhnert?

I’m afraid that this marriage record isn’t "yours". The groom’s surname definitely starts with B (it’s the first word of the record). Weber was his job, it should mean weaver. The bride is Theresia Schmidt. I have the same opinion as jano. I also think that the wedding took place in Roudno. Unfortunately, the register isn’t digitized yet.

Transcription and translation of Josef Waber’s birth record:
father: Joseph Waber Anbauer (small farmer) in Seifersdorf (Zátor in Czech) und (and) Sohn (son) des (article) Johann Waber Anbauers (small farmer) in Seifersdorf (Zátor in Czech) und (and) seines (his) Ehweibes (wife) der (article) Johanna geborne (born) Johann Weinhold (I’m not sure about this surname) Anbauers (small farmer) in Seifersdorf.
mother: Johanna tochter (daughter) des (article) Florian Ludwig Anbauers (small farmer) in Seifersdorf (Zátor in Czech) und (and) seines (his) Ehweibes (wife) der (article) Johanna geb. (born) Joseph Koschatzky Anbauers (small farmer) in probably Zossen (Sosnová).

Please forgive me if this is a silly question, but have you ever met this German writing? If not, you can use this to transfer it to Latin writing. http://genealogie.nka.cz/?page_id=177
The forum has special section for reading old records named Čtení starých materiálů. viewforum.php?f=41
If you post your requests in that section, colleagues will help you more. I believe that their transcription will be more precise than mine. They would appreciate if you could follow these two rules.
1) Name of your post should contain: type of register (birth, marriage or death), place, where the event took place, year, when it happened, and language of the record.
For Johanna Kunerth’s birth record it would be: Birth, Roudno, 1853, German
2) You should include link, which leads to the record, and position of your record on the page of the register (e. g. the second record from the top) into the message.

I would say that Rautenberg is German name for Roudno. The dam is called Slezská Harta and it was built in 1987 – 1997. Five villages (Dlouhá Stráň, Nová Pláň, Razová, Roudno and Leskovec nad Moravicí) were partially flooded during its construction. The village of Karlovec was flooded completely.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slezsk%C3 ... _Reservoir

[LarryBudd]

Ellise,

Thank you! Thank you for the correction with the marriage record as well as the translation.

I'm familiar with Fracture German, but still VERY new. I have several different guides. I can breeze through the Latin, as I've dealt with that with my Prussian genealogy, the challenge is while some of the text is legible and easy for someone to read, it's clear one of the scribes was getting old and his writing is very challenging to decipher. To the untrained eye, there's no difference between an L and a B, despite there being a rather obvious difference. Attempting to read "enm" in a shaky hand can look like a lot of "e"s.

No offense to the language or those who use it, and kudos to those who can read it fluently. I've only obtained a relatively good grasp of my native language, English as an adult. I have never been great at learning other languages, though not for a lack of trying. That said I am trying, and I am grateful for the translation.